Zooty and Flappers “Pre-Publishing”
I first heard the term ‘pre-publishing’ a few weeks ago, and it caught my curiosity. I’d heard of self-publishing, e-publishing, vanity publishing, traditional publishing… But ‘pre-publishing’? That was something I needed to check out.
With just a little snooping around, I found ZootyandFlappers.com, a professional looking site with easy navigation. But then I started reading…
As I understand it, you give him your book to put up as a free download on his site. People who download and read your book give it a rating. If it gets good enough ratings…
Wait, wait, right there. So instead of trying traditional publishing or submitting to an agent, he wants you to give your book to him to put up for free? Okay…
Continuing on, if it gets good enough ratings, he takes it off the site as a free download and puts it up as an ebook or CD people can buy.
Wait again. Who is going to pay for something they could download from the same site for free a couple weeks ago?
When you get 10,000 downloads, this guy sends the book, sales report, reader ratings, etc to ten agents.
10,000 downloads? Who is going to pay for what they know is a non-published, not represented by an agent ebook? And again, who is going to buy a book they were getting for free a few weeks ago?
Also, what agent or publishing house is going to want something that has been downloaded 10,000 times? Can we say “first publishing rights” anyone?
Not only does what he’s doing get me (all things I could technically do by myself for no cost and all profit going directly to me), but I’ve caught typos on his site. For a site like mine, it damages my reputation a little, but it’s forgivable. I post nearly every day. But when you’re a business, you can’t really afford typos on your site.
At least, you can’t afford to call your site “Zooty & Flappers”, have that in your URL, but have the title bar (the top of your browser) show up “Zoodyandflappers.com”
Even beyond all that, I decided to do a little more research. Maybe somewhere in the abyss of this all, there was some good to be found.
Apparently, there’s no good to be found, just a lot worse.
Domenic Pappalardo doesn’t like his sites being talked about in a negative way. In my searches, I found two interesting blog posts…
The first post talks about the Zooty and Flappers company and how it doesn’t work. So be it. There was no name calling, no slander; she told it like she saw it to be.
That post was followed by this post in which the post author talks about the threats Domenic has made.
Domenic proceeded to talk about the person who posted the posts above here on his site, obviously set on destroying her credibility.
Not good. Not professional. I am never the final word, however, so check everything out and make your own judgments. I’m confident you’ll see what I see (and what others like Writer’s Beware have seen).
January 23rd, 2008 at 4:11 am
Very interesting. (I came over from Pub Rants and hadn’t heard about this)
My thoughts:
1) My agent found me in the slush and I had no “big name” or “big following.” (something that I hope to change once the book comes out when I dream of legions of fans- but that is another post) I think it is wrong to imply that you have no chance of making it unless you have one of these. I had no connections, no someone who knew someone, no bribery.
2) Some contracts prohibit publishing work that has been “published” before. I would assume this would put your work at risk of being seen as published.
All in all sounds fishy to me and your points seem bang on. I”m off to follow the links you recommend to learn more about the issue.
January 23rd, 2008 at 12:31 pm
This was a good post. And it went along with my impressions of Z&F too.
January 23rd, 2008 at 9:58 pm
Eileen - You make excellent points that every writer should know when coming across a business like this. Some places don’t like you even making forum posts with your work, let alone putting it online for anyone to download.
Thank you for stopping by.
Ryan - Thank you for stopping by. Things like this annoy me quite a bit, so I was hoping to get my point across and help people to see this for what I believe it to truly be.
January 24th, 2008 at 12:11 am
Thanks for the heads up, JM.
I will just look at it as this pre-publisher is confused about the way the industry works. Whatever his thinking, I would never think any publisher will publish my book after it has been sold as an e-book. If this program works for anyone ever I will be amazed.
January 24th, 2008 at 10:56 am
Very interesting, especially the threats of legal action by the site creator over on storycrafters.com.
As an attorney, I hate it when people who don’t know what they are talking about use the giant club of “the law” or “court” to threaten people who have simply angered them.
January 24th, 2008 at 11:24 am
Ugh - thanks for this post Jaime. I feel bad that some writers feel like they have to do this to get heard. When publishers give away your work for free (at least, without paying you anything for it either), they’re really taking advantage of the “toughness” of this industry. Def dugg, and would digg 100 more times if I could.
January 24th, 2008 at 7:41 pm
Sara - I would be amazed as well. People who push something like this confuse me. Do they really think they can get away with it?
Lawyer - That has to be so annoying for you! I think “I’m going to talk to my lawyer” gets thrown around entirely too much these days.
Allison - My absolute pleasure to get the word out about this guy and people like him. I wish I could digg more than once as well.
January 27th, 2008 at 7:16 pm
Thank you all for the comments. As to a legal matter, the members on Storycrafters were calling me a con-artist. Much was said that is nolonger posted on Storycrafters. I did make a copy of all off the screen. As to Victoryia Strauss, it would have been nice if she talk to me first. The issue between her and I, has to do with my not liking her book, “The Awaken City.”
There have been many people, most link back to Strauss and Jean Lauzier who posted, and from what they said,did not bother to read my site. I have made some changes on the site. I will take no books from writers untill I prove it workes. I do have a means to bring thousands of people to the site.
There have been many people in the past two years who have given their books away free, than sold up to 30,000 on their own before a publisher bought the book. It is not unproven.
Before I start, I will prove I can do the system, or take the lumps on my own work.
I have asked nobody for money. I was going to do it with just my books, and figured, “Why not let other who are having a hard time selling their work onto the site.
The attacks were not called for. I once gave a homeless man $1.00, and he called me a cheap bastard. It’s a nice world we have.
Domenic
January 27th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
I’ll be honest - I didn’t see anything that took place on StoryCrafters. However, anyone who responds in anger immediately gets a suspicious look from me.
As for the many people who have done this, I would like to see a list of their names. To get their impressions of the process and testimonials as to that actually being what they did.
In this day and age, people throw around “many people have/many people believe” almost as much as (if not more than) people throw around “I’m talking to my lawyer about this”. These days you need to list out dates, times, names, etc - otherwise known as proof.
Kudos for you for not asking for money (until you start selling the books, that is) but I still fail to see why I would go to you for this when it’s something a writer can do on their own while keeping all of the profit.
Good luck in making this work. I have my doubts, but if you have actual agents on board who would actually take books that have been given away for free, and have sold 10k copies, them more power to you.
January 27th, 2008 at 9:36 pm
True, any writer can open thier own site and put their work up for sale. Can they bring buyers to their site? No one will know their site is there without great marketing. This program has been done before by others. It has not worked. How many thing do we have today, that people tried and failed? Point..Turn on the light bulb in the room you are in. many failed before Edison did it. And, it took him years with a team.
Lindburg? many died before he made it. great books that publishers said no to?
Writers can open their site. Can thsy bring buying customers to it? I can. I have the means (money), and a way of doing it. My little misspelling company will give away 250,000 free algebra book down-loads via 1,000 radio stations within a four day run.
The book is proven in High schools to teach kids algebra in less than 2 hours. Want a free copy?
I have given it away for 12 years. That is why I have never sold the book to a publisher.
The two people who started this rubarb were saving the writing world from me? What a stupid world this is.
Domenic
January 27th, 2008 at 10:30 pm
If you have truly come up with something new that works, then I’m sure your business will succeed. As it stands, what you’re offering goes against the experience of many writers and agents.
You have made your claims in public and the public will see how your company succeeds or fails. If this actually works and there is actually an agent out there who would be willing to take on something that has been seen for free as well as having sold 10k copies already, then I will be happy to write another post.
January 27th, 2008 at 10:34 pm
PS: Jm, check your spelling in your last post. It makes mine look ok. As to the Zoo..D..yandflappers. I didn’t do that. Whoever makes those things for the computer did. lol
Domenic
January 27th, 2008 at 10:40 pm
“For a site like mine, it damages my reputation a little, but it’s forgivable. I post nearly every day. But when you’re a business, you can’t really afford typos on your site.”
January 28th, 2008 at 12:13 am
I do have the money and marketing know how. My dog ruff is publishing his first book. I’m giving odd’s he will be a published author and out selling all those good folks who saved the world from zotty and flappers.
I have lost all respect for the women in the American writing industry.
Domenic
January 28th, 2008 at 12:18 am
I’m sorry you’ve lost your respect for women in the American writing industry.
I have said all I feel needs saying on my part as far as your company goes. Best of luck to you in your business ventures.
January 28th, 2008 at 1:14 am
Man, I wish I could attract people to my site when I wrote about them. Oh, the number of Jessica Biel posts that I would put up….
January 28th, 2008 at 1:49 am
If it worked like that, I think a lot of us would be writing about the ‘celebrities’ or our fields of interest.
January 28th, 2008 at 8:31 am
“I have lost all respect for the women in the American writing industry.”
hahahahahahaha. Oh brother. *rolls eyes*
January 28th, 2008 at 5:03 pm
Obviously we Australian women are doing something right.
February 11th, 2008 at 7:25 pm
My program is back on-line. I will not be taking works from other writers(free)at this date.In the future I may not take books from other writers. Those who did not see fit to take the chance will never know. The only books on the site are my own.
As I have said in the past; the readers will judge.
Once my staffing is complete, the site will open for business. You may see it now.
Domenic
http://www.zootyandflappers.com
February 11th, 2008 at 8:23 pm
Thank you for stopping by.
February 12th, 2008 at 11:34 pm
JM,
A very good article on Author Neil Gaiman on http://www.mdbell.com
Author Gaiman is giving away FREE books to readers!
Seems others think it is a good idea for new writers.
Domenic
February 13th, 2008 at 1:39 am
Thank you for the link.
February 13th, 2008 at 11:40 am
The person I could not remember, I have found. I understand you are doing a story on Zooty and Flappers?
Forbes.com did a story on author Cory Doctorow 12.01.06
Author Doctorow (SiFi writer) gave away 30,000 FREE books on the net. Results? He SOLD 700,000 of the same book. Mr Doctorow will not sell a book before he give it away.
I have been called clueless, stupid, jerk and a nut. Sorry, I will follow the path laid down by Author Cory Doctorow who proved the “Experts” don’t know what they are talking about.
Domenic Pappalardo
http://www.zootyandflappers.com
February 13th, 2008 at 6:50 pm
PS. The top of the title bar to log on, (The D rather than the T) was done by yahoo. I have asked them to change it, they have not. the error was not mine.
Domenic Pappalardo
February 14th, 2008 at 7:51 pm
Thank you for stopping by. I’m sure that if most authors were co-authors of sites as big as Boing Boing, they could also do what Mr. Doctorow did.
October 30th, 2008 at 8:03 pm
You’ll find this funny JM, I just found this post by random Stumbling! Coolness!
October 31st, 2008 at 6:41 pm
Haha.
Excellent!